I’ve been thinking about this concept for some time. With the need to address natural disasters as well as military service in general, this is an idea worth considering
Exactly. I’m ancient enough to remember Katimivik when service to the community was encouraged. Even 12-18 months would be a worthwhile time to spend in service
When I was a teen - late 90s - my friends and I wished we had mandatory military training like Switzerland. We were all female, and couldn't see any reason why we should left as sitting ducks in case of invasion. Not everyone needs to be trained to the level of paratrooper, but basic combat and arms training would be useful.
Totally agree — there are folks who would love to be trained to the nines and having basic training would probably encourage them to keep going. We definitely need to treat our military as a necessity rather than an afterthought.
I am an American and nearing 70. I like your idea and wish we had had something like it when I was young. Why? Some young folks need a little more time to mature; I think it would help with polarization, which just may be what nails the coffin shut in the States; getting exposed to different social backgrounds would be helpful; and, seeing more of one’s country is a great thing that is not available to everyone. I’d make it mandatory.
On the surface, mandatory military service, like that in Israel, may seem like a good idea, conscripts make poor soldiers.
Let’s start with the Oath you take when you sign up. You are publicly stating that you agree to kill and to be killed in the service of you country. Asking someone doing mandatory service to kill and to be killed does not foster any morale, elan or willingness. Quite the opposite. If you want people willing to sacrifice their lives, you want volunteers.
Second, we lack the infrastructure to begin to bring in the tens of thousands of young adults and put them in uniform. My first set of ‘Combats’ were thread bare and my rifle was a semi-automatic antique. We would need several years to even produce enough uniforms, let along the weapons and training facilities. Our economy has been hollowed out by US owners, so even getting a garment factory set up to make new work dress will be difficult.
Third, going into provincial areas of responsibility and authority to get trades education and Cadets level training in public schools would see politicians like Danielle Smith have a stroke after having a fit over federal over-reach. Quebec would react in a similar fashion.
Now this not to say that we cannot help prepare our youth to face the challenges we will soon see.
Civil Defense training can be started locally, by concerned citizens. Just getting everyone to finish the St. John’s Ambulance Standard First Aid level training would be helpful. Add to that any courses on small engine repairs, DIY projects like rain water capture, composting, gardening and canning.
Getting courses started to get your FAC will help. Firearms are as dangerous to yourself as they are an enemy if you dont know how to use them properly. Get into camping and hiking. Most people can’t imagine sleeping without a/c or a perfectly dry comfortable bed. Getting to know nature again will help. Learn what food their is available on the land.
Travel within Canada. Taking cross country road trips was one of the best memories I have of childhood. It showed me that we are all basically the same when it came down to it. Le cote de Sud en Quebec looked allot like the farms and small town on the Prairies. The biggest difference was in taste: they drank beer with tomatoe juice. Definitely an acquired taste.
My main point is that we dont have to wait for politicians and bureaucrats to get around to setting up. We have some small amount of time left before the storms break over us. We just have to make the best use of it. If there aren’t courses available, then try to organize one. It will help build a sense of community.
I believe this has some merit but can see some problems. Education is a provincial responsibility and as such there are at least 10 different curricula in Canada. Grade eleven students are not all prepared for the same grade twelve courses, and the provinces would have to be all brought on board for that-no problem there, right😉
So perhaps this could be a post-secondary program, again, moving students out of their home provinces would be great. It would be even better if people were paid for their service and received bursaries for further education and training of their choice.
What becomes of the status of these citizens in case of a military conflict? Are they reservists who can be conscripted in such an emergency. Will they be expected to undergo annual refresher training? I know this is the case in Switzerland.
As I indicated, an interesting proposition.
Also, the Knowledge and Employability program in Alberta may not be what you think it is.
Just one more nation building project to standardize high school education :)
Post-secondary institutions couldn’t survive a year without enrolment — that’s why I figured grade 12 would be better. You could be right about my understanding of K&E — I thought the intention was to prepare kids who were at risk of non-completion.
I think the same structure would apply as now — regular military with reservists — but break glass in case of invasion-type thing.
There’s no problems facing this country that we can’t solve with actual leadership, standards, and appropriate funding.
The military doesn’t have a recruitment problem because of a lack of exposure to youth. It has a recruitment problem because the pay and treatment is terrible, and it’s poorly run, partly because it’s run by the sort of people who stick around despite poor pay and treatment. If we’re not going to fund and support our current military, a national program isn’t going to address any of those problems
The same goes for almost every social institution. And the people who are making those decisions are basically everyone except the 18-20 year olds that people want to throw at the problem
And I don’t buy any justification that it would let them earn education or other benefits. They shouldn’t have to jump through hoops for those things now!
Katimavik on steroids. Love it! And yes it is doable in a manner that could address all philosophical objections. The hard question will be do we have the federal/provincial government fortitude to do something harder and meaningful?
First 17, is not considered a child, so that addresses the concern for children noted above. Second, I think a lot of today's youth are lost. They are facing a world that looks increasingly threatening, with fewer opportuities than many (certainly my generation) had when they graduated in the privileged 60's and 70's. I think this merits serious consideration.
I don't hate the idea of military training but I don't love it either. First of of all, your proposal to train youth 18-20 yo or thereabouts would be very costly to start up and to continue year after year. The only way I'd agree to my child enlisting would be if the training was a modified version of combat training that's less intense but still has physical training, combat and weapons training, an education component, and instills respect, discipline and responsibility. But before Canada goes through with a plan like this and the expense of it why don't we purchase updated, functional equipment, weapons and aircraft for the military we already have, and secure our northern borders too? A campaign promoting the military like we used to have, enticing youth to enlist is another suggestion. Also, let's try paying our current military a decent living wage and guaranteeinng their retirement or God forbid a job related disabilty wont leave them l financially destitute. Just my thoughts.
Actually, 17-year olds. Not saying 18-20 would be turned away, but I’m saying 17-year olds, during their grade 12 year, every year. It will be costly, absolutely — defence costs. We need civil defence (non-combat) to deal with natural disasters and military. If we want Canada to remain a free country, we need a population that can defend it and we have to build it. If we want Canada to be a unified country, we have to build it and such a shared experience over generations would do that.
Not everyone would continue on within the military after the year, but more would, if we make it possible. We always look at Nordic countries and say their taxes pay for great education and healthcare but they also pay for a military trained population.
There are so many First Nations communities that lack clean, safe drinking water. Perhaps that’s a mission our young people can come together to help fix?
Ah yes, because it’s (checks notes) 18-20 year olds who aren’t contributing enough, and getting too many benefits. It’s about time they gave back to their country.
If this passes, I think every older person should be required to sign up too. One year of service, for the same pay and accommodations.
I was in the militia in SK back in 1972. I am 70 now and given the orange shit-gibbon’s rhetoric, wouldn’t hesitate to do it again if they would allow me to.
I’ve been thinking about this concept for some time. With the need to address natural disasters as well as military service in general, this is an idea worth considering
Exactly. I’m ancient enough to remember Katimivik when service to the community was encouraged. Even 12-18 months would be a worthwhile time to spend in service
I honestly don’t see a downside with it at all.
When I was a teen - late 90s - my friends and I wished we had mandatory military training like Switzerland. We were all female, and couldn't see any reason why we should left as sitting ducks in case of invasion. Not everyone needs to be trained to the level of paratrooper, but basic combat and arms training would be useful.
Totally agree — there are folks who would love to be trained to the nines and having basic training would probably encourage them to keep going. We definitely need to treat our military as a necessity rather than an afterthought.
Ideas well worth considering!
I think so too!!
The interprovincial part is reminiscent of Katimavik, which we know was discontinued under Harper, but now with a more focused raison d’être!
I am an American and nearing 70. I like your idea and wish we had had something like it when I was young. Why? Some young folks need a little more time to mature; I think it would help with polarization, which just may be what nails the coffin shut in the States; getting exposed to different social backgrounds would be helpful; and, seeing more of one’s country is a great thing that is not available to everyone. I’d make it mandatory.
I was thinking of the U.S. when I was writing this as well — it’s an enviable nation-building project to be sure.
On the surface, mandatory military service, like that in Israel, may seem like a good idea, conscripts make poor soldiers.
Let’s start with the Oath you take when you sign up. You are publicly stating that you agree to kill and to be killed in the service of you country. Asking someone doing mandatory service to kill and to be killed does not foster any morale, elan or willingness. Quite the opposite. If you want people willing to sacrifice their lives, you want volunteers.
Second, we lack the infrastructure to begin to bring in the tens of thousands of young adults and put them in uniform. My first set of ‘Combats’ were thread bare and my rifle was a semi-automatic antique. We would need several years to even produce enough uniforms, let along the weapons and training facilities. Our economy has been hollowed out by US owners, so even getting a garment factory set up to make new work dress will be difficult.
Third, going into provincial areas of responsibility and authority to get trades education and Cadets level training in public schools would see politicians like Danielle Smith have a stroke after having a fit over federal over-reach. Quebec would react in a similar fashion.
Now this not to say that we cannot help prepare our youth to face the challenges we will soon see.
Civil Defense training can be started locally, by concerned citizens. Just getting everyone to finish the St. John’s Ambulance Standard First Aid level training would be helpful. Add to that any courses on small engine repairs, DIY projects like rain water capture, composting, gardening and canning.
Finland has an excellent online resource:
https://intermin.fi/en/rescue-services/preparedness/preparedness-guide
Getting courses started to get your FAC will help. Firearms are as dangerous to yourself as they are an enemy if you dont know how to use them properly. Get into camping and hiking. Most people can’t imagine sleeping without a/c or a perfectly dry comfortable bed. Getting to know nature again will help. Learn what food their is available on the land.
Travel within Canada. Taking cross country road trips was one of the best memories I have of childhood. It showed me that we are all basically the same when it came down to it. Le cote de Sud en Quebec looked allot like the farms and small town on the Prairies. The biggest difference was in taste: they drank beer with tomatoe juice. Definitely an acquired taste.
My main point is that we dont have to wait for politicians and bureaucrats to get around to setting up. We have some small amount of time left before the storms break over us. We just have to make the best use of it. If there aren’t courses available, then try to organize one. It will help build a sense of community.
Nous nous souviendrons.
We are Canadian.
Strongly disagree. Voluntary with incentives I would support.
Currently, there is a class divide in the military. Having mandatory service would flatten things and galvanize nationalism.
I believe this has some merit but can see some problems. Education is a provincial responsibility and as such there are at least 10 different curricula in Canada. Grade eleven students are not all prepared for the same grade twelve courses, and the provinces would have to be all brought on board for that-no problem there, right😉
So perhaps this could be a post-secondary program, again, moving students out of their home provinces would be great. It would be even better if people were paid for their service and received bursaries for further education and training of their choice.
What becomes of the status of these citizens in case of a military conflict? Are they reservists who can be conscripted in such an emergency. Will they be expected to undergo annual refresher training? I know this is the case in Switzerland.
As I indicated, an interesting proposition.
Also, the Knowledge and Employability program in Alberta may not be what you think it is.
Just one more nation building project to standardize high school education :)
Post-secondary institutions couldn’t survive a year without enrolment — that’s why I figured grade 12 would be better. You could be right about my understanding of K&E — I thought the intention was to prepare kids who were at risk of non-completion.
I think the same structure would apply as now — regular military with reservists — but break glass in case of invasion-type thing.
The question is, would people trust the military with their children? I think that right now the answer is probably no.
There’s no problems facing this country that we can’t solve with actual leadership, standards, and appropriate funding.
The military doesn’t have a recruitment problem because of a lack of exposure to youth. It has a recruitment problem because the pay and treatment is terrible, and it’s poorly run, partly because it’s run by the sort of people who stick around despite poor pay and treatment. If we’re not going to fund and support our current military, a national program isn’t going to address any of those problems
The same goes for almost every social institution. And the people who are making those decisions are basically everyone except the 18-20 year olds that people want to throw at the problem
And I don’t buy any justification that it would let them earn education or other benefits. They shouldn’t have to jump through hoops for those things now!
Doing nothing hasn’t worked so far. I say we try something else.
As a professional…
Oh my God no.
Katimavik on steroids. Love it! And yes it is doable in a manner that could address all philosophical objections. The hard question will be do we have the federal/provincial government fortitude to do something harder and meaningful?
First 17, is not considered a child, so that addresses the concern for children noted above. Second, I think a lot of today's youth are lost. They are facing a world that looks increasingly threatening, with fewer opportuities than many (certainly my generation) had when they graduated in the privileged 60's and 70's. I think this merits serious consideration.
A year of public service, meeting and talking to people from other parts of the country could do wonders for national cohesiveness.
I don't hate the idea of military training but I don't love it either. First of of all, your proposal to train youth 18-20 yo or thereabouts would be very costly to start up and to continue year after year. The only way I'd agree to my child enlisting would be if the training was a modified version of combat training that's less intense but still has physical training, combat and weapons training, an education component, and instills respect, discipline and responsibility. But before Canada goes through with a plan like this and the expense of it why don't we purchase updated, functional equipment, weapons and aircraft for the military we already have, and secure our northern borders too? A campaign promoting the military like we used to have, enticing youth to enlist is another suggestion. Also, let's try paying our current military a decent living wage and guaranteeinng their retirement or God forbid a job related disabilty wont leave them l financially destitute. Just my thoughts.
Actually, 17-year olds. Not saying 18-20 would be turned away, but I’m saying 17-year olds, during their grade 12 year, every year. It will be costly, absolutely — defence costs. We need civil defence (non-combat) to deal with natural disasters and military. If we want Canada to remain a free country, we need a population that can defend it and we have to build it. If we want Canada to be a unified country, we have to build it and such a shared experience over generations would do that.
Not everyone would continue on within the military after the year, but more would, if we make it possible. We always look at Nordic countries and say their taxes pay for great education and healthcare but they also pay for a military trained population.
There are so many First Nations communities that lack clean, safe drinking water. Perhaps that’s a mission our young people can come together to help fix?
Yeah — I don’t get how this is still a thing at all. To me, it’s as simple as a water treatment plant but somehow it’s not that simple?
Ah yes, because it’s (checks notes) 18-20 year olds who aren’t contributing enough, and getting too many benefits. It’s about time they gave back to their country.
If this passes, I think every older person should be required to sign up too. One year of service, for the same pay and accommodations.
I was in the militia in SK back in 1972. I am 70 now and given the orange shit-gibbon’s rhetoric, wouldn’t hesitate to do it again if they would allow me to.